Talk:National ideas

From Europa Universalis 3 Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Table of ideas

I would like to change the tables. The list of secondary effects (has to be updated) for some ideas is very long and also written on the idea pages itself (already updated). This also applies to the effects of previous versions. My suggestion for a shortened table:

Idea EU3.gif NA.gif IN.gif HTTT.png DW.png Requirements Primary Effects
Press gangs x x i National ship costs: -50%
Grand navy i c Naval forcelimit modifier: +100%
Seahawks i Naval tradition: +1% yearly
Superior seamanship i c Naval morale: +1
Naval glory i c Prestige from naval battles: +100%
Excellent shipwrights i Naval technology level = 7 Leader naval maneuver: +2
Naval fighting instruction i c Naval technology level = 30 Blockade efficiency: +50%
Naval provisioning x i c Naval technology level = 53 Ships repair in coastal seazones

Shortcuts: x: idea not avaiable; i: idea introduced; c: idea changed

For the secondary effects of a national idea through events, decisions and missions, see its own page.

Your opinions? - Lillebror (talk) 10:01, 12 April 2014 (CEST)

I like it, it trims out a lot of the duplication which is a big issue on a page like this. How about colour coding the boxes to say not there in red, new in green and modified in blue, perhaps unchanged in yellow? Dauth (talk) 10:14, 12 April 2014 (CEST)
Sounds like a decent idea. The "idea introduced" tag doesn't really add any info though, as when it is introduced is obvious from when it stops being unavailable. ~ Meneth (talk) 12:58, 12 April 2014 (CEST)
Colour coding the boxes — good idea, see below
Idea EU3.gif NA.gif IN.gif HTTT.png DW.png Requirements Primary Effects
Grand army Land forcelimit modifier: +33%
Military drill Land morale: +1.0
Engineer corps Leader siege: +1.0
Defensiveness: +25%
Battlefield commissions Army tradition: +1% yearly
Glorious arms Prestige from land battles: +100%
National conscripts Land technology level ≥ 7 National manpower modifier: +50%
Regimental system Land technology level ≥ 30 Land maintenance modifier: –20%
Esprit de corps Land technology level ≥ 53 Discipline: +25%
Legend:   : idea not avaiable;   idea avaiable; : idea changed
- Lillebror (talk) 10:26, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
I was thinking something more like this
Idea EU3.gif NA.gif IN.gif HTTT.png DW.png Requirements Primary Effects
Military drill Land morale: +0.5 (EU3.gif) +1.0 (IN.gif)
However I'm not 100% sure of the information layout in the right hand column. The Red you've got for not introduced looks good though. Dauth (talk) 12:26, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
I like Dauth's color coding the most; it's obvious to the user that if the idea changed, it must be available. ~ Meneth (talk) 13:05, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
On the topic symbols: An idea which is changed is still available. This should be symbolised by the green part of the field.
Idea EU3.gif NA.gif IN.gif HTTT.png DW.png Requirements Primary effects
Merchant adventures EU3.gif: Merchants: +1 yearly
IN.gif: Merchant cost: –33%
Scientific revolution Trade technology level ≥ 30 EU3.gif: Technology cost: – 2.5%
IN.gif: Technology cost: –10.0%
HTTT.png: Technology cost: –10.0%
       Papal influence: – 5.0% yearly
On the topic former versions: I don’t need information about former versions here, but if I would prefer the above style. - Lillebror (talk) 14:11, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
My point is that anyone understands that if an idea has changed it must be available. Thus the green background behind the blue square is redundant, and simply visual noise. ~ Meneth (talk) 14:13, 13 April 2014 (CEST)


I think Meneth is looking for something like the table below.
Idea EU3.gif NA.gif IN.gif HTTT.png DW.png Requirements Primary effects
Merchant adventures EU3.gif: Merchants: +1 yearly
IN.gif: Merchant cost: –33%
Scientific revolution Trade technology level ≥ 30 EU3.gif: Technology cost: – 2.5%
IN.gif: Technology cost: –10.0%
HTTT.png: Technology cost: –10.0%
Papal influence: – 5.0% yearly

However I also think in tables we should forego the first use link rule and link every time. Its just easier to follow, but the indent that Lillebror has is good and I think needs to be added. I can't seem to get it right. Dauth (talk) 17:30, 13 April 2014 (CEST)

Pretty much, yeah. I think the first use link rule should be applied within the same tile, but otherwise ignored. So if a single tile mentions technology thrice, linking tech thrice is pointless, but if three separate tiles mention it, they could each link to it. ~ Meneth (talk) 19:28, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
Thanks for the dicussion. Done. - Lillebror (talk) 21:47, 13 April 2014 (CEST)
Looks great; well done. ~ Meneth (talk) 21:49, 13 April 2014 (CEST)